'"'Special: If the character already has uncanny dodge from a different class she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead."
AFAIK this has never worked.Thorsson (talk) 09:33, November 9, 2013 (UTC)
- Correct (see the notes). The 1.23 description doesn't mention it either - updated. GFallen (talk) 18:36, November 9, 2013 (UTC)
Is there evidence Uncanny dodge does not defend against hidden opponents?Raelind (talk) 19:36, October 13, 2018 (UTC)
"You retain your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if you are caught flatfooted or struck by an invisible attacker." The programmer may have just worked it like formula (flat-footed or struck) by an invisbile creature and just the community wanted it to include all sneak attacks. However some PW's may have altered the Feat and some mods have altered invisible. If it worked against all or some other sneaks attacks then it would very obvious as many sneak attackers have low AB and would not hit. A screenshot should not be nescessary. I suspect its working as intended and some PW's just added Hidden into the description Ragimund (talk) 01:24, October 14, 2018 (UTC) http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?426745-How-powerful-is-Uncanny-Dodge-Really https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nn9e?Uncanny-dodge-it-help-you-if-you-are-blinded (different game but maybe some one can test when blinded) https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2plq9?improved-uncanny-dodge-question If Uncanny Dodge prevents being caught Flat Footed then what benefit is Improved Uncanny Dodge.
I understand the argument about Uncanny Dodge as stated above, but there's nothing in the description of Flat Foot that explicitly mentions flank attacks as a consequence of being in that state. The implication is clear that Improved Uncanny Dodge is the only defense to reduce flank attack vulnerability from Rogues and Assassins (and it's in the feat description). Otherwise, combat functionality of these two classes is severely reduced and it's highly doubtful that's what the game designers intended; we should refrain from second guessing them without very good reason.
Also, I read some of the sources you cite; it appears Uncanny Dodge was designed to act as an offest against being flat footed for dexers, as compared to those who wear armor for their armor class rating. Persistant world modifications, and others outside of NWN2 official updates, are not sufficent reason to alter the description of a feat as stated from an in-game description. Further, there is no evidence PW or other mods were the source of changes in the prior description of this feat. So I rolled it (and other references to uncanny dodge) back to the previous version. I may have missed it, but I don't recall anyone in this wiki ever stating screenshots being required as evidence - they're often not possible. Put another way: if you can be more specific on how the feat functions otherwise, and your example can be replicated by others, then these changes would be welcome. Raelind (talk) 16:51, October 14, 2018 (UTC)
The description in the manual or the 3.5 description is a better choice than in game, although may still cause confusion however adding hidden makes it worse. Is there evidence that Uncanny Dodge does not defend against hidden; what would be suitable other than a screenshot. It only works against invisible and not hidden (stealthed attackers). Maybe I've got it backwards, do you believe a character with Uncanny Dodge is unlikely to be hit by another stealthed opponent due to them not losing their Dex/Doge AC. Improved Uncanny Dodge works well, the implication is if you can't be sneaked why would you worry about being attacked from behind.Ragimund (talk) 09:24, October 15, 2018 (UTC) I see you reverted Assassin as well, however back the Game Manual description; you not see the irony.
Looks like Pathfinder can't even get the wording sorted "She cannot be caught flat-footed, nor does she lose her Dex bonus to AC if the attacker is invisible." But at least no mention of hidden.
The troubled souls at https://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=49026 you might start thinking if you still getting sneaked, then it probably doesn't help against sneak attacks. Wishing so, doesn't make it happen. Unlucky little Halfling Rogue still loses Dex/Dodge against a Stealthed Fighter but lucky for me, against 65AC otherwise https://imgur.com/E3OMQr6
As to the earlier Flank comment, suspect that's from reading the wiki description. I'd suggest start reading the game manual more; Flank attacks are just another means of getting Flat Footed sneak attacks "Whenever you make a successful melee or ranged attack against an opponent who is flat-footed OR cannot see you (i.e., you are in Stealth Mode or invisible) OR has its back to you AND is in combat against another opponent, you deal extra damage (initially 1d6)"
I read the game manual. Based on what is stated there, and the description of flat-footed, I agree with your assertions and have made modifications accordingly. Raelind (talk) 22:32, April 9, 2019 (UTC)
Proposed Description v3
Uncanny Dodge
Type of feat
Class
Prerequisite
Barbarian 2, Air 1, Rogue 4, Assassin 2, Dwarven defender 2, Shadowdancer 2, Shadow Thief of Amn 2, Sacred Fist 6
Required for
Improved Uncanny Dodge
Specifics
The character retains his Dexterity and Dodge bonus to AC, when caught flat-footed or attacked by a invisible creature.
Use
Automatic
Note
The in game description is incorrect, this ability does not include attacks from hidden creatures and successful attacks from stealth will not be affected by Uncanny Dodge. This ability is only effective against invisible attackers and in some cases, also flank attacks. The number of Class levels with Uncanny Dodge feat will also effect your ability to inflict sneak attack to flanked opponents with the Improved Uncanny Dodge feat.
D&D Note
Unlike 3.5e, Uncanny Dodge will not be upgraded to Improved Uncanny Dodge even if a character with the feat gains it again from another class.
NWN2 Tip
If seeking to avoid attacks from stealth, improve or enhance Spot or Listen skill.
Gameplay
Invisible attackers will still receive the +2 AB bonus to attack, unless the defender also has Blind Fight
Invisibilty and stealth maybe considered similiar as both being unseen. But stealth is a skill of avoiding preception and can be detected by any character with sufficient skill or aided by equipment such as a torch. Invisibility however, cannot be detected by any non magical means and it is only this Uncanny Dodge extraordinary ability that allows the barbarian and rogue classes to avoid losing their Dexterity bonus to AC when they are caught flat-footed from invisible attackers.
Its not that Uncanny Dodge is weak and does not help against hidden opponents, every character already has the ability to detect to stealth. It is only those gifted with this uncanny ability that have some innate defense against invisible attackers.
Ragimund (talk) 12:13, November 13, 2018 (UTC)
As of v1.23, Uncanny Dodge is not working. The NWNX plugin xp_fix allows to correct this. (evidence? suggest delete this line) and https://bgtscc.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Feats?from=U has no listing of custom Uncanny Dodge
Ragimund (talk) 14:16, October 16, 2018 (UTC)
Nevertheless I can verify that it is working at BGTSCC. I believe that they had to 'fix the fix' to get it to work though. Thorsson (talk) 14:15, November 13, 2018 (UTC) The BGTSCC link is not opening at the moment I suspect it was a few years ago (link changed; Aurali, Nov 2015), then it was still not working against stealth. So they modded the feat to include a description error and now BGTSCC characters with UD are no longer caught flat footed, seems overkill. Ragimund (talk) 09:15, November 14, 2018 (UTC)
Some history
ftp://neverwintervault.org/rolovault/NeverLauncher/Readme.txt
xp_fix plugin says some bug fixes for UD Sep 2011
https://www.nwnx.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=15236#15236
Pain says Uncanny Dodge fixed Mar 2012, "Note that this is only for the MP Invis fix"
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/nwn2db/so-uncanny-dodge-t250.html
Rykard says fix in NWNX4 Feb 2013
https://www.nwnx.org/index.php?id=nwnx4_changelog
NWNX4 no Uncanny Dodge
https://bgtscc.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Feats?from=U no custom UD.
https://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=49026
Aurali, not working against stealth Nov 2015 (let me guess, because it never has)
Does someone have a screenshot of this UD fix working? Ragimund (talk)
So the Uncanny Dodge feat description is getting worse on other sites and editors are making notes it doesn't work against Feint. Well, it doesn't work against random meteor strikes either. Perhaps we should list more attacks it doesn't work against, maybe flank attacks because that's covered by Improved Uncanny Dodge. Okay, so it doesn't work against Feint, Meteors and Flanks, what does it work against? Maybe it's in the description.
"Caught flat footed or attacked by an invisible attacker", is that alternative option similar to "would you like a cup of tea or coffee?" I expect the coffee also comes in a cup however some may suggest only the tea is served in a cup and you'll regret asking for coffee. Like it's not invisible attackers with sneak attack that will catch you flat footed, but something else and only invisible attackers without sneak attack that attack you.
More simply, Uncanny Dodge works against Invisible attackers (with sneak attack or not) and the Improved Uncanny Dodge works against Flank attacks. Both are not broken, just misunderstood. Hopefully NWN2 stays ahead the other PnP sites. Ragimund (talk) 10:48, November 6, 2019 (UTC) Halfling Ninja keeps Dex and Dodge AC with Uncanny Dodge after Invisible Sneak Attack https://imgur.com/oN7F1qp although may not work with all haks.